The Hoffs are coming!

4 Hoffmanns have just been purchased on ebay for the bargain price of £25.  That is about half the normal price.  cool.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350310066099&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT

Rewiring commences

But first some scenics…

Well actually the ground frame, which seems awfully relevant given the point motor change that’s about to happen…  The handrails were added and painted gunmetal – that’s some cool paint by the way!

 

and here is the underneath – all point motors and the accy decoder gone – all wires labelled ready for the arrival of the hoffs!

More on Hoffmanns

http://finneyandsmith.co.uk/finneyandsmith/hoffman.htm
I think these are going to be the answer, but with a new accessory decoder required too.  Probably an LS150 (6 output). 

I tried the hoffmann with the gaugemaster DCC30 last night but it didn’t work.  I also prefer the LS150 as it is covered and has those 6 outputs, rather than just the 4 of the DCC30.  It looks altogether better built too.  Images below.  A friend has already used this to power hoffmanns with no alterations or extra components required – easy, as it should be.

I should also mention that despite setting the DCC30 output to its maximum (127) it still didn't have enough ummph to throw 2 solenoids at once.  The addition of a CDU might help this, but given the above it's time to move on past this peco/DCC30 combination.

and then…

I went into the garage to find some insulated joiners and came across a hoffmann slow action motor that dad had given me a few years ago.  These have also been recommended to me by friends and work well with DCC accessory decoders as they require 16v AC just like solenoids.  They come with integrated polarity switching and you can buy extra switches for signal switching etc.

A few issues remain to be answered on this, but maybe this is the answer…?

The fulgurex thing is not so much the current draw say gaugemaster, but that it requires DC input and although with tortoises this can be overcome, no-one has managed to make a fulgurex work like this.  They are also considerably larger than these hoffmanns. 

The first point being butchered!  Don’t worry nothing is broken – insulated joiners will be added as a new pivot and the blades glued back on to the tiebar. A new plastic piece will be added to stop the point moving to the right and disconnecting the insulated joiners.

More on the point motor strategy

I have received my fulgurex point motor and had a good look at it. 

The current draw from one of these is about 200mA, way less than the DCC30 accessory decoder rating of 3A (I have asked gaugemaster again about this given their belief that it won’t work). 

When you start looking into this you soon realise why my current (no pun intended) setup is so lame at throwing points.  The peco motors can draw 4A, and in one case I am trying to power 2 at once = 8A on a 3A rated system.  ah.

Thus it does seem sensible to move to

1) Latching, if I am to butcher the points and make them DCC friendly, and in the process killing the springs

2) Less of a current draw to get good reliable throw

3) Slow motion for realism.

Thus I am still proposing to switch to fulgurex motors. 

Further complications

Gaugemaster now tell me that the DCC30 accessory decoder that I have cannot power fulgurex motors as they require too much current.  A DCC31 may be about to be launched that will do that job.  ah.

Points strategy

My strategy will now be as follows:

1) Attempt to remove the springs from the existing peco points and replace the rail joiner hinge with an insulated one as per an idea by Tony S on rmweb.  I will then link together the stock rail and point blades to sort out this issue with shorting.  A small amount of reballasting and repainting of rails will be necessary.

2) In time replace the peco solenoid motors with fulgurex slow motion types and reprogram my DCC30 accessory decoder (gaugemaster) for latching point motors).  This also needs some resistors adding.  Furthermore I have emailed gaugemaster to understand whether I can use their accessory decoder I have to operate two fulgurex’s together on one output – the yard and yard headshunt points which always act together.  I will be ordering a fulgurex today to understand how it works.

Thanks for all the comments people, very helpful.  One of the beauties of this blog is access to other people’s thoughts and ideas – cheers.

Other point motor types

With thanks to Michael Campbell, my attention has been drawn to three more types of point motors:

1) Fulgurex see http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=284 and for instructions see http://www.finescale.org.uk/finescale/fulgurex.htm

These are a much better cost that tortoise and also much lower profile (30mm).  They can have 2 or more aux switches and the only issues are apparently noise (not a huge issue for me) and the fact that they are hard to alter later (but I hope to get them installed correctly first time and would probably glue them in with epoxy for strength and a bit of alteration time whilst drying.

2) Conrad see http://www.conrad-uk.com/ and search for point mechanism -
people say these are cheap versions of the below.  They only have the single switch and people say avoid them on reliability grounds.

3) Hoffmann see http://finneyandsmith.co.uk/finneyandsmith/hoffman.htm

as 2, they only have one switch and are about as expensive as tortoises.  Fulgurex still my favourite.

So, to change or not...

Reliability

I have written before about my concerns regarding loco reliability and recent sales of locos fit with that.  However I have also been thinking very carefully about points too.

There are 3 issues:

1) DCC 'friendly' issues regarding shorts between point blade and stock rail.

There are more detailed sites about this such as wiring for dcc (http://www.wiringfordcc.com/) but the principles are well explained here: http://www.newrailwaymodellers.co.uk/electrics-dcc-wiring-a-layout.htm

Basically, an out of gauge wheelset may bridge the gap between a stock rail at -ve and a point blade at +ve.  This causes a short, which in DC operation would just result the loco momentarily stalling before recovering.  However in DCC this kind of short would reset the command station as decoders are very sensitive to shorts - the command station shuts down to protect the decoders.

I have in the past dismissed this as a minor issue as it shouldn't happen too much and I will make sure the back to backs on locos/stock are correct.  Having thought about it though the plastic centred wheels with metal treads that are used almost uniformally in my stock do sometimes come apart and I can see that this shorting thing could be more of a problem that once thought.

So, it would be far better to join the stock rail to the point blade so it is the same polarity and make a cut just before the frog.  The frog remains power routed and the problem is solved.  Insulfrog points just need the wires carrying current over the dead frog to be cut and the blades to be linked to the stock rails.  The insulfrog creates the gap and no cutting of rails is required.

In 009 peco electrofrog points are difficult due to the way that they are made.  Half way along the point blade there is a rail joiner which acts as a pivot.  This is within just a few chairs of the frog.  So if you try and put a break in the blade as suggested the piece of rail left behind wobbles terribly and comes away at the pivot.  In OO this is not such a problem as the point is considerably longer. 

People have suggested filling the gap created with araldite or some non conducting filler, but this is not really a proper solution either for long term reliability.

The real solution is to find points that don't have this pivot in them.  Most hand built points are not made that way and so are some others such as those made by tillig.

I am therefore carefully considering whether to dig up my peco points and either get some specially made for me (with electrofrogs) or move to insulfrog tillig points.

2) Solenoid versus latching point motors

The solenoid motors I have installed are not latching, so they don't hold the blade against the stock rail as if it were locked there. 

They are also very strong in their action (although I need to do some more programming on mine as they aren't strong enough at the moment), which puts stress on the points unneccessarily.  Might tortoise slow action (and latching) motors be a better bet?  The problem is that these require quite some depth of baseboard.  I have just under 70mm of depth, a tortoise needs 85mm - a problem!

I would also need a different type of accessory decoder too - the wabbit. http://www.dccsupplies.com/shop/product_info.php?products_id=1307

so this is getting expensive!

Seep latching motors could be a possibility too, but they only have one aux switch, causing problems for my point indicator LED wiring. 

I think I'll stay with peco for now on cost grounds, but I may need one of these for extra ummph where I have set things up to throw two solenoids at once http://www.bromsgrovemodels.co.uk/masterswitchfaq.htm

3) Check rail clearances

I have never been happy with this element of peco points, which in many cases require filing to accept even the finest flanges.  Tillig points are much better in this regard.

If you want to see what a tillig point looks like, check: http://www.internationalmodels.net/acatalog/Main_Catalogue_Index_Narrow_Gauge_23.html

The 'massive' problem being that they are insulfrog.

So, do we prefer DCC friendly but insulfrog tillig, over DCC unfriendly but electrofrog peco? Or should I get some hand built points that are electrofrog and DCC friendly?

NGG16

I’ve had a good look at the NGG16 now and I think the problem with the chassis is that the quartering is out.  I need to check with someone who has completed one of these engines though.  Thus I will take it with me next time I see Dad.
In other news, the replacement wheel for Tal has arrived and so work can recommence there.
Colin

Ngg16 arrived

Well my new NGG16 arrived today and generally I’m very happy.  It has been well put together and I’m lucky that it has got to a stage where detailing to suit my chosen prototype is still possible.  There’s a bit of errant solder to clean up, but this is nitpicking really.  The main issues I can see are one wheel that has come away from its tread and also the complete chassis runs great in forwards but sometimes gets stuck in reverse.  This shouldn’t be too taxing to sort out though.

Get in there

I have some locos for sale:

Moel Tryfan - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110483342149&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Baldwin 590 - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110483393212&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

Gowrie - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110483395646&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

and 4415 the Kerr Stuart diesel - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110483397591&ssPageName=STRK:MESELX:IT

get in there quick if you want one.

Colin

Leamington Show images

A great show – a large hall with plenty of space to move about in, lots of families there, good traders (modelex and squires got most of my dollars), good layouts, superb restaurant but not much narrow gauge!

Flockburgh 3mm

 

Playmobil layout

A very clever bit of scenic modelling, highlighting a frosty winter morning – Blackston Junction in P4

 

A work in progress of Toddington (GWSR)

 

And our favourite – Oulton TMD – digital sound from classes 20,31,33,37,43,45,47,50,56,60,108 and 159 plus lots of LED lighting in 00. Video at the bottom.

 

  

Iron Mould Lane – nice, very nice

Colin

Another NGG16

Purchased on ebay last night is another NGG16 for Rhyd Ddu.  This will be the 4th NGG16, and the 5th Garratt when you include K1.  The loco is partly built and appears to have been constructed to an excellent standard.  I will likely use the two chassis for No.87 and this body, plus the unbuilt chassis from my 87 kit will become No. 109 - Pete Waterman's NGG16 under overhaul at Crewe.  The fact that very little body detail is done is useful as I can then recreate the pipe runs etc when 109 appears out of the works.

This means I will be able to pass two trains of double headed NGG16s in the station - cool!

This will also mean that plans to sell Moel Tryfan, 4415, the Baldwin 590 and Gowrie will have to be accelerated.  Gowrie is still a kit and I will be constructing it tonight ready for sale.

In other news, I attended the Leamington/Warwick show on Saturday - good show, report to come on this blog.  I have also ordered a replacement wheel for Taliesin from alan gibson. 

Colin

Christmas progress

May I wish all readers of this blog a happy new year.  Maybe 2010 will see Rhyd Ddu exhibited, who knows?

Christmas progress has been slow (as you would expect), news being:

- The prep for sale of the Baldwin 590 and Moel Tryfan.  This included the first use of Dad's new graphic air filtration unit (shown above).  During this the hairdryer we were using managed to heat the model so that the low melt solder holding the boiler unit and cab square part melted causing the body to fall out of square!

- The arrival of my CMX track cleaner and a trip to boots to get some nail varnish remover for really powerful track cleaning! [not every day, but where for example paint or hairspray overspray has got on the rail head]

- Father Christmas bringing an 08 shunter chassis for Harlech Castle with outside frames, books and also the prodigy PC interface cable.

- Attempts to retain the crankpin on Taliesin's troublesome wheel failing despite the use of powerbond and loctite 601.  It seems these nylon wheel centres are not easy to glue and the crankpin hole has clearly become too large, so a new wheel must be the answer!

- The news that I must travel abroad (to Malta) for a while on work, so modelling is likely to cease for this period and thus blog updates will likely stop for a couple of weeks (sorry).  Hopefully it will be hotter over there than it is here!  Well looking at the forecast it looks like 18-20 degrees C in the day and 15 at night.  Nice!
Colin

The plan changes (slightly)

I (will) have the following types of stock for the layout:

- Modern WHR carriages/borrowed FR modern carriages to be hauled by 143/87/138/K1/funkeys etc
- Modern WHR construction stock to be hauled by Upnor Castle/Conwy Castle etc
- Modern/heritage Col Stephens FR set to be hauled by Tal/Merddin (photocharters)
and (hopeful) I suppose:
- WHHR heritage carriages and wagons to be hauled by Russell

Then there are:

- Heritage WHR stock and wagons to be hauled by Beddgelert/Moel Tryfan/Gowrie/590 etc (which is a bit of a modellers' licence thing really).

and the following rarely if ever to be used on Rhyd Ddu (but to be used on the proposed future FR layout):

- Modern FR carriages

- Modern FR PW stock

- Modern/heritage FR slate trains and vans/waggons

- Modern/heritage Victorian FR set

But it will take me ages to get all of the above ready, so I must concentrate on the top 4 bullet points above.  Thus I have decided that locos that do not fit into that set may be sacrificed in order to pay for my 16mm garden railway project.  Thus I am looking to sell locos that are outside this plan and also are likely to be unreliable in DCC - i.e. 0-4-0s.  I am as yet unsure of what to do about Beddgelert/Moel Tryfan/Gowrie/590 as I would like to keep them if possible.

Colin

Taliesin update

Did some minor work on Taliesin last night, but gave up in exasperation after fiddling around for ages. 
I did manage to glue on the chimney and attach the cylinder back covers.  I also tacked on one of the slidebars and got it running nicely until one of the retaining bushes fell off whilst I was testing it.  Getting that back on (behind the slidebars) proved to be impossible.  I gave up for some thought and now have a new idea.  But first I must ensure that the crankpins stay where they are and so I will be investing in some loctite 601 retainer.
Colin

purchases

Despite my exertions in 16mm see here I have also been doing some 009...

This has included the purchase of an apparently dead England off ebay, and within 5 minutes having made it work.  Here it is above.  This will become Palmerston and this is aided by the fact that this model doesn't have the central moulded nameplate on the tank side.  The model does need detailing (not least by finding some replacement sandboxes), and also will need some work to stop it being so rear heavy - liquid lead in the smokebox and a plasticard roof are two ideas so far...

I've also been experimenting with the roco clean wagon I bought...

which works quite nicely indeed and I suspect that I could replace the track rubber with a sponge soaked in some cleaner like goo gone and replicate the CMX cleaner (although not with the auto flow thing unless I can find a way of putting a small recepticle inside this wagon!

Colin

Beddgelert and wiring

Firstly I have managed to do some tidying work on the wiring on the most congested board – the yard.

and after a most welcome suggestion from a commenter I have altered Beddgelert to take the outside framed Farish 08.  Luckily it didn’t need much to widen the axleboxes to get this in.  I also drilled two holes at the front for the chassis to be attached to.  Work is still required to find a way of attaching it at the rear and also to mount the trailing bogie.  Then it’s just the con rods and slidebars that need fabricating.  A quick touch up with paint and a conversion to dcc (easy) and it’s all done. Oh and nameplates of course…and a driver…and…

 

Colin

Much to report

Sorry for the delay in posting, this has been due to a very busy week when I was hardly at home at all.

On the 009 front, I have tested the points decoder and there is good and bad news...

The good news is that it functions as it should and each output I tested work - I didn't test output 1 as it runs across to the other end of the loop. The LED lights up and the controller can make the point motor operate. This has thus tested the continuity of the wiring and that the decoder itself is working.

The bad news is that in general the pulse does not have enough uumph to throw the point blade over. Now this may be due to the points being a bit sticky due to ballasting and painting, but I have also heard that many utilise a CDU to give a bit more uumph and I will try this (I have such a unit in stock in anticipation that this might be the case). John from County Gate has said he uses a CDU for each point(!).

I have also been lucky to have been passed some karma from the estate of the late Dr Ben Fisher, who many of you will know through his excellent WHR site and forum. I have been pleased to offer Joe Fisher, his brother, some advice on the models Ben left behind. Joe hopes to get a 009 layout going with the not inconsiderable stock that Ben constructed. In many cases this was either scratchbuilt or heavily modified from kits. The standard is excellent, and when I heard that much of this modelling was carried out when he was in his secondary school/university years, I was very impressed indeed. The stock that is finished included Ashover, Leek and Manifold, Ffestiniog and Blaenau, WDLR and French stock, all built to a very high standard. Joe then showed me Ben's piece de resistance - a beautiful model of the Pechot-Bourdon double fairlie - just wonderful.

Joe is however not interested in the unmade kits that Ben left behind and after an appeal via the WHR forum has passed them on to me. I will be making a donation to the WHRS appeal for Nantmor halt - the Dr Ben Fisher memorial appeal.

I have therefore been fortunate to 'inherit', amongst other things, a backwoods Russell kit - which I will build in the cut-down state - a NWNGR workmans' carriage and a complete WHR Pickering brake (although this is in a freelance livery).

Also I have been passed two 16mm narrow gauge kits, both Slaters - a quarry Hunslet and a De Winton. The garden railway plans are thus being accelerated. I have set up another blog for all things 16mm at http://16mm-ng.blogspot.com and will be posting there about garden focussed developments. I hope that this will not affect progress on Rhyd Ddu, as that remains by top priority.

Colin